Rate "Shirts and Skins"

On a scale of 1-5, rate "Shirts and Skins":

  • 5-Perfetc

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • 4-It's a Wonderful Episode

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • 3-Good. Good. Fine. Fine.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2-One for the So-So Corral

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1-Not So Great

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3

Marlena

Well-known member
This may be my favorite Season 5 episode. If you watch it... forget for a moment what comes before and after... you can still believe these are two people who love each other.

The battle between the sexes, while it is handled with seriousness, does appear to also be an exciting competition between Maddie and David.

David is flirty, even when arguing with her:

"I like my women laying down, okay... I come from a long line of missionaries."

Maddie's response is, "Fine, make jokes," but she says it with the slightest smile on her face.

They are arguing with each other, but they're not being mean or bitter. And I love when David punctuates his final point by getting up in Maddie's face and puckering up for a kiss only an inch from her lips.

He asks her if she'd like to go out to dinner with him. I'm a firm believer that, for these two, going out to dinner was simply foreplay for the romantic evening that was bound to follow.

When they are arguing after he catches her snooping in his office, he says to her, "The only thing beneath me is you, and this is the one time I don't like it." He says this in present tense. Present tense!

Maddie admits she wanted David to come onto her. Nice amount of flirting in this episode.

And then we get the bloopers with Cybill and Bruce hugging and laughing. I have to give this Season 5 episode a 👍.
 

Boink

Administrator
Staff member
This may be my favorite Season 5 episode. If you watch it... forget for a moment what comes before and after... you can still believe these are two people who love each other.
SAS is definitely one season 5's better episodes, but even on its own terms, it unfortunately fits too well within "what comes before and after" for me to find the same sense of a currently-happening romance that you see. Yes, David drops his typical, occasional suggestive line, and Maddie actually flirts at the end ("Neil Fass came onto someone who didn't want him to" and "I may be willing to negotiate the terms"), but most of what I see in SAS is sadness and regret, with this being the defining moment for me:

While working separately from competing angles on the same case, David and Maddie have a brief, after-hours moment in which he offers to take her out for dinner and tells her, "Listen, I, uh... I just want you to know that all of this has been fun."

"What?" she replies, somewhat defensively.

"Well, this. You, me, all this." Though on the surface he is referring to their pending legal showdown, I just get an all-too-clear sense that David is trying to reach through the current state of their relationship and find a hint of better times. That he wishes she would join him in reaching.

"Well, I wouldn't exactly call it fun," she answers, perhaps not yet grasping where he is coming from, or where he is going. "Thought provoking, challenging, stimulating, maybe a little infuriating."

"Stimulating, challenging, infuriating," he considers... "Sounds like fun to me." Once again, this sounds more like David missing and pushing for something to be happening between them that right now simply isn't.

The sense of sadness and longing in her simple and soft reply, "Yeah," says to me (and perhaps to David) that she now has gotten his point. It hints that, on some level, she feels the same as he does. It is likely this particular moment of subtle connection between them that leads to her flirtation in the episode's final moments, not mention her asking him fairly early on in the very next episode, "Are you seeing anyone?"

That's just my take on it, anyway.
 

Marlena

Well-known member
SAS is definitely one season 5's better episodes, but even on its own terms, it unfortunately fits too well within "what comes before and after" for me to find the same sense of a currently-happening romance that you see. Yes, David drops his typical, occasional suggestive line, and Maddie actually flirts at the end ("Neil Fass came onto someone who didn't want him to" and "I may be willing to negotiate the terms"), but most of what I see in SAS is sadness and regret, with this being the defining moment for me:

While working separately from competing angles on the same case, David and Maddie have a brief, after-hours moment in which he offers to take her out for dinner and tells her, "Listen, I, uh... I just want you to know that all of this has been fun."

"What?" she replies, somewhat defensively.

"Well, this. You, me, all this." Though on the surface he is referring to their pending legal showdown, I just get an all-too-clear sense that David is trying to reach through the current state of their relationship and find a hint of better times. That he wishes she would join him in reaching.

"Well, I wouldn't exactly call it fun," she answers, perhaps not yet grasping where he is coming from, or where he is going. "Thought provoking, challenging, stimulating, maybe a little infuriating."

"Stimulating, challenging, infuriating," he considers... "Sounds like fun to me." Once again, this sounds more like David missing and pushing for something to be happening between them that right now simply isn't.

The sense of sadness and longing in her simple and soft reply, "Yeah," says to me (and perhaps to David) that she now has gotten his point. It hints that, on some level, she feels the same as he does. It is likely this particular moment of subtle connection between them that leads to her flirtation in the episode's final moments, not mention her asking him fairly early on in the very next episode, "Are you seeing anyone?"

That's just my take on it, anyway.
Hey Boink,

I totally get what you're saying about that scene when David asks her to dinner. He's thinking of their past and missing it, while Maddie doesn't remember it with the same fondness that he does, but she misses it, too.

I just think that if you put the blinders on to the before and after, S&S doesn't have the bitterness that you see in other Season 5 episodes. You can kinda, sorta pretend that things are okay.

To me, when I watch Season 5, when Maddie says to David in TMWFE, "Are you seeing anyone?" .... that's the moment when I fall off my chair. It's like, where'd that come from?!?

In fact, in my next story, that's precisely the line I'm looking to explain. So, glad you brought it up.
 

Boink

Administrator
Staff member
To me, when I watch Season 5, when Maddie says to David in TMWFE, "Are you seeing anyone?" .... that's the moment when I fall off my chair. It's like, where'd that come from?!?

In fact, in my next story, that's precisely the line I'm looking to explain. So, glad you brought it up.
That line alone proves to me that David and Maddie have not been romantically involved for some time, with the last on-screen evidence of romance being TCOM. There is nothing in PFL or SAS to really contradict that. In fact, Maddie's rejection of David's get-together invites in both of those episodes supports that some sort of falling out happened between TCOM and PFL. (I have an "Available Concept" in that gap that you may be familiar with.)
 

MoonlightingMagic

Well-known member
This may be my favorite Season 5 episode. If you watch it... forget for a moment what comes before and after... you can still believe these are two people who love each other.

The battle between the sexes, while it is handled with seriousness, does appear to also be an exciting competition between Maddie and David.

David is flirty, even when arguing with her:

"I like my women laying down, okay... I come from a long line of missionaries."

Maddie's response is, "Fine, make jokes," but she says it with the slightest smile on her face.

They are arguing with each other, but they're not being mean or bitter. And I love when David punctuates his final point by getting up in Maddie's face and puckering up for a kiss only an inch from her lips.

He asks her if she'd like to go out to dinner with him. I'm a firm believer that, for these two, going out to dinner was simply foreplay for the romantic evening that was bound to follow.

When they are arguing after he catches her snooping in his office, he says to her, "The only thing beneath me is you, and this is the one time I don't like it." He says this in present tense. Present tense!

Maddie admits she wanted David to come onto her. Nice amount of flirting in this episode.

And then we get the bloopers with Cybill and Bruce hugging and laughing. I have to give this Season 5 episode a 👍.
Gave it 4 because it is still Season 5 but I also loved this episode. AND how Maddie tells him in so many words she welcomed his advances when David asked her if she thought of him as Neil Fass.
 

MoonlightingMagic

Well-known member
That line alone proves to me that David and Maddie have not been romantically involved for some time, with the last on-screen evidence of romance being TCOM. There is nothing in PFL or SAS to really contradict that. In fact, Maddie's rejection of David's get-together invites in both of those episodes supports that some sort of falling out happened between TCOM and PFL. (I have an "Available Concept" in that gap that you may be familiar with.)
and how he offers to fix her up! WTF???
 
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